And what exactly is the way Medjugorje “devotees” are hoping for?
I know your feelings about the supposed apparitions, but I do not share them. I have many close friends, including a former spiritual director who is a priest, who are devoted to Medjugorje.My feelings are this - I believe that the Church will rule (eventually, even if not with this commission) on the validity of the apparitions and that, most likely in my opinion, they will say that nothing supernatural is occurring. This only leaves those who believe they are with a few choices, none of them great:1 - the Church is correct and what I have believed in is false. This could harm many peoples faith life.2 - the Church is wrong and the apparitions are true and I don't care what the Church says. This is even more harmful.We should tread lightly. Because Medjugorje is so popular with so many and the Church does not want to harm anyone, whether Mary is truly appearing there or not.
Marcel, you didn’t answer my question. Instead, you just stated your own feeling/belief about Medjugorje.
Sorry about that - here is a direct answer. Every Medjugorje devotee I have talked to is hoping that the Church will rule that something supernatural is occurring and I wouldn't expect this not to be the case, since there is a devotion for many.
Have you actually looked at the videos of the apparitions? It is hard to see how anyone could say there is nothing "supernatural" happening there. If you wish to say "diabolical" fine ... but four teams of doctors and scientists have affirmed this children are not faking:http://en.gloria.tv/?media=44601Or, check out :40-1:20 of this video - especially 1:19 (the synchronicity of the children's heads at the termination of the apparition is uncanny):http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sK8285UaKTUPeace!
Mark - I watched the videos and see nothing that proves the supernatural nor do I claim it is diabolical.The Church, whom I have faith in - not the purported visionaries, will lead us to the truth in this matter one way or the other.
I think "proof" is too high a standard. God will never force you to believe (remember "walk across my swimming pool" from the Broadway classic "Jesus Christ Superstar"?). The Lourdes standard is "to those who believe, no proof is necessary; to those who don't, none is possible". Anyways, how do you get a 10 year old (Jacov in the second video) to pull off a "hoax" like this? As the father of the "balloon boy" saga found out recently - depending on a child to back up your lie or hoax can be treacherous.Have a great weekend!
You might be interested in these:Patrick Madrid (Medjugorje skeptic) and Fr. Neil Buchlein (been to Medjugorje 17 times since 2003) were interviewed on Kresta in the Afternoon on April 15th.Also, I developed an unofficial list some weeks ago when I found it in Croatian media. In that post, I also pulled some background on some members together. I will be doing a post, probably this weekend, that compiles more background on some members.
Too much investment in private revelation not approved by the Church is dangerous. Some of what the visionaries say is true: frequent confession, communion, meditation on Sacred Scripture, prayer of the Holy Rosary, and fasting are of immense value. However, I think I remember reading once that the devil can speak many truths to insert one lie. We don't know the source of Medjugore until the Church pronounces it, so it's best to be careful and not become too heavily invested.We have Sacred Scripture, papal encyclicals, and 2,000 years of the writings of great Saints and Doctors of the Church which we could read instead of the Medjugorje messages. Her reaction during the vision is interesting:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3l9faPilhSoAlso, I recently came across this document by Michael Davies entitled "Medjugorje after Twenty-One Years - The Definitive History":http://www.mdaviesonmedj.com/
Michael Davies? As in "the Novus Ordo was designed by Freemasons guy? Personally, I prefer not to wade that deep into RadTradism; you know - "garbage in, garbage out"...
"garbage in, garbage out"...You are correct. It's difficult to know what is garbage and what is true. That's the point of this whole thread.I knew Davies was sympathetic to tradition, but as far as I knew he was in communion with the Holy Catholic Church. I was unaware of his opinions about the origin of the new Mass. Also, I have not fully read his document on Medjugorje, nor have I verified its scholarship.In the end, we will not know until the Church makes a pronouncement. If I remember correctly, when the Lord spoke to St. Teresa of Avila, her spiritual director said it was not the Lord and that she should ignore it. Years later, when another spiritual director allowed her to converse with Jesus, the Lord said her obedience pleased him greatly.
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